Really? But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! They know exactly how to size people up, how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities, weaknesses, etc. People you work with? No idea the the Bible says, Do the work of an evangelist! Wild!!! How is that not normal? So grateful for this much-needed emphasis this weekend. That is hard to deal with. So sad. Im unclear about what faith journey means, but it sounds very Willow Creek. Tonight we wept in sadness for all the people closely associated with this story, yes, even for Bill and Lynn and for their adult children. I pity you if thats the case. It took celebrity to call out another celebrity because that is how that world works. Some people stay quiet for too long, even good people. * Now, it all falls into place: Wow, Im not the only person this happened to. This was real. This was wrong.. Are you so sure its the devil? Most Pew sitters wont have a clue its going on but the staff is definitely affected. An honest person has nothing to hide and everything to gain and will save things because he is safe in the knowledge that evidence will only prove his innocence. I think thats where you get the people that say reports like this hurt the church. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. Please take a look at the situation in 1 Coninthians 5. WITCHES! After all, there were so many good things that had been done and so many accolades given. Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. He could claim she was taking advantage of him (poor man) because she knew that after taking Ambien he might not be possessed of his full faculties for the rest of the night. Emails can be kept confidential with appropriate IT input. In Christian theology, the Devil prefers deception and manipulation and the Long Con, NOT the Direct Frontal Attack you hear these days from Spiritual and Cultural Warriors. "The question of how to pay for reforms long-term became an issue this week after the SBCs Executive Committee announced it had lost $6 million over the past fiscal year, mainly due to the cost of responding to the sex abuse crisis. How many people do you need to hurt with your judgement and accusations before it is enough? Hybels told her he had taken Ambien to give himself an excuse for not remembering all the wrongs he had done and said to her that night in his room. In the book, Turn the Ship Around David Marquet writes: Leadership should mean giving control rather than taking control and creating leaders rather than forging followers. Power is at the top but information is with the hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy. Hybels retired early from Willow Creek in 2018 after he was accused by several women, who worked for or attended the church, of sexual misconduct stretching back more than 20 years. Dont know, but I wonder. Not surprising that you are getting off-colored comments from some WC members. I want to express my gratitude to Nancy for coming forward. Read Acts 2. I guess you are not aware of the president for whom Hybels was a spiritual advisor. So done. It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? (Exod. @WillowCreekCC. What if the Elders had sent Hybels home on a sabbatical while they allowed for a truly independent investigation 5 years ago? They called people out who were lying, as well as inappropriate practices in the churches.]. You are so right. As for BIll HybelsI have not judged his salvation. It is as if they are trying to saysee! Look for similarities with the other victims testimonies. This caliber of leaders dont just stay quiet. Contemplative Spirituality can be clearly defined this way: Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but often wrapped in Christian terminology. We cant imagine the immensity of it all. Character is revealed, not when things are going our way but when things are painful. Shaping a church this way is an abomination, puts Hybels in very dangerous territory. He then shared unfiltered thoughts about me, describing in great detail specific parts of my body he liked, and said he thought I was effusive, sexy and had great candor, mentioned what a promising leader I was, and he said. Brothers Dont Shake Hands, Brothers Gotta Hug. Tommy Boy, its definitely legit and very well written. Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. Ummmmm Brad. It was through him that I first heard the Gospel as a nonChristian teen in a nonChristian family in Salem MA. As we got up to leave at the end of the evening Bill said to me in front of the group, Nancy why dont you stay for a couple of minutes for us to discuss your ministry work? I immediately looked at the others for how I should respond and one of them smiled and said, Okay, see you in the morning.. Please read what I, a former elder, wrote. Good point. @ ishy: But friends I hug more frequently, family, etc. Its harder to sweep things under the rug when internet on-lookers are looking under rugs 24-7. kwim, dees? That was the exact thought I had while walking the dog this morning! One more narcissistic, egotistical, Out of control, self-serving man in a position of trust has been stopped in his tracts. It is the private hotel rooms that can be dangerous. Of course not. Jesus takes care of the harvest. As it says in the bible, Who are we to judge? Millions of dollars all. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations.. Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? I cannot imagine the pain, the hurt. There are no winners here. 40 years of it. I suspect there are nefarious folks who prefer hugging all genders to shaking hands, as hugging males, as well as females, gives them plausible cover when they go for the non-righteous hug with a female (saying, I hug everybody!) Plus, research shows that women (generally) are more influenced by touch, as they have higher releases of oxytocin when hugged than males and even have a more dramatic willingness than men under those circumstances to give someone their money. If there is one thing I find the most comprehensively evil is manipulative deception. Same outrage. And David C Cook did not remove Tullian Tchividjians books at the time, though when I checked just now, it appears the only one they carry is the biography of Billy Graham for which he wrote the foreword. They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. Christ truely cared about the underdog, and did not like religious leaders that abused their positions. Im not saying any of that is right. Unfortunately, some of us are coming to the conclusion that this is what much of The Church really is: a thought reform institution. This is just how we do; I dont know. I have yet to ask these people what they think of all this. Having seen some of the comments by WCC supporters left at TWW, I can imagine the pressure and pain that she has had to face with her account. Trust me, Willow Creek has nothing to do with whether I follow Jesus or not. I was in the bath and my roommate answered the phone. Interesting, as it goes after comments (he said bad words) and some situations, offering a perspective, all engineered to shape the perspective regarding Hybels. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. It works but is it the faith? And many that I know and love have yet to escape. But at church with people you see week after week? I agree. This is VERY common. Such a horror of more revictimization. Ambien was his excuse and it worked for quite awhile. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. Hybels condemned himself. I suspect (although I dont know for sure) that a hug creates a higher dose of oxytocin. But if true it is still not honorable behavior. In April 2018, when Bill Hybels' scandal got out, John Ortberg turned on his former master . 2 comments not allowed. Membership Covenants Kick out the immoral/abusive pastors. And it would appear that apparently absolutely no one found the need/necessity of bringing poor pastoral attitude, grave scriptural issues, his response, and certain questionable pastoral behavior before the church as directed by scripture. No one. On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. (2) A face-to-face conversation with Bill Hybels on April 6th. My answer is quite simple. My first international trip with Willow Creek as a staff member was to Tasmania. Or the colleague. Its not a numbers game, its not like worldly sales with rainmakers and marketing and big hits. Read Paul on Mars hill. That is common respect for other people. Here are some points of summary that I wrote about why this matters: From some of the background reading on this issue, it is clear that digital documents, audio, and video can constitute relevant evidence in any of these legal actions. And he could also use the Ambien thing to slander Vonda if she publicly complained about the way he had treated her that night. If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. It is sadly, surprisingly easy. [ https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=28151%5D. The retiring pastor calls it all collusion and lies. And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. @ dee: @ brad/futuristguy: I just posted an article with links to two case studies from the #MeToo movement, one from the entertainment field (Joss Whedon) and one from the skeptics/scientists author-speaker circuit (Lawrence Krauss). Ive worked with men for over 40 years in business. Our job is to call. Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. And my understanding is that it applies to both criminal cases and civil lawsuits, and in any regulatory actions (like IRS or state Attorney General investigations of corporations). Because your mind tells you this particular man YOU KNOW would never so you must be misjudging. he did so because there were problems and he knew more would come. I dont know what mainstream is for this topic. This is going to get worse before it can get better. What BH did is reprehensible. So, I have having network issues, and a IT person is working on my computer. So what favor did he do you (that you did not tell me about) that made him think that you owed him? Sometimes I wonder if it is not their worst enemy. Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. Written in 1999! @ Bea: Big money, fame, power and influence? Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. Hybels is the founding and former senior pastor of the Willow Creek Community Church located in South Barrington, Illinois. Willow is no exception. I would be ROFL if it didnt mean that there are some folks who have been deceived. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. I have books by Bill Hybels on my shelves, and really thought he was one of the good ones. Little nobodies dont stand a chance. Maybe Im misinterpreting. #metoo. Bill Hybels Family. So, does that mean the alleged improprieties, at least for them, are not #Metoo worthy offenses? From all angles. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. The FAQ document she links, however, entitled Willow Creek Response to Local Media, has mysteriously transformed itself into a 404 NOT FOUND message. I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. On Tuesday, Illinois megachurch pastor Bill Hybels announced that he's resigning amid sexual-misconduct allegations made by church members and employees. He told me to sit down and put my feet up. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. William Hybels is an American author and church figure. When the founding big cheeses are gone (sorta) the factions start forming. Willow wont even list Mars Hill on Steve Carters website bio. not for this long. And since Peter came up in another reply of yours along with a list of credentials with almost everything but being a Pharisee of the Pharisees lets think of his credentials by the time Paul met up with him in Anotich. The headers which wont be encrypted give info on sender and recipients and dates. Same story we keep hearing again and again. Im not sure if Julie is a regular or not (I cant keep up), but a new Twitter account alerted me to that article as well, that is why I asked. In my opinion, much of the so-called church, admittedly unbeknownst to most of those involved, has been turned into a mind control, thought reform, get out the Republican vote institution. Oh but us Little Folk, we, Read Acts 2. That said, this is all so tragic. No one. For most organizations, hard questions and analytical thinking is NOT desirable, as it will almost always challenges the official orthodoxy and might even unmask hidden agendas. I wonder when the above reproach inspectors will engage and be welcome with open arms; they may want to hurry, as its reached the secular media, and theyre not too focused on 1 Peter 4:8. There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. If it is impossible for the man to keep his hands to himself, then it is the responsibility of the women to activate their own tell-the-difference perception and act accordingly. Not the courtroom. Bill Hybels and Willow Creek, Ravi Zacharias, Steve Timmis and Acts 29, Hillsong New York City pastor Carl Lentz, James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel are just a few of the names I could list. After you were told by Bill that you dressed like a college professor and needed to dress appropriately for your position, I was the one asked to get you new clothing. Why do one in three Christian marriages end in divorce? They did exactly what most ministry people do. He got GAWD on his side I would assume these claims are multi million. I outlined above the typical reasons people dont mention uncomfortable incidents with someone they trust or admire. Forgiveness/ redemption for the sinner does not mean acceptance of the sin, nor does it mean deliverance from the consequences of the sin. Many years back Hybels started up the World Leadership Conferences which in reality means World Domination Conferences. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. But it is even harder when those left behind form a militia to hunt down and fire at anyone who dares to question the paradigm. And his comment is A church? Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. Of course not. April 13, 2018. NB If anything uncomfortable happens again I will be saying something clearly to him & asking him to mind his manners. Willow Creek does not need a *incredible* leader. That is because most men and women are not predators. This is largely Christianese. AT BEST its the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. Because my -and others- comments are moderated, there can be a lot of instantly-posted discussion between a (approval-needed) comment and when it appears. Or, for instance, a pastor may be forever fishing to see what his parishioners know as to the latest church scandal, etc., without the trusting individuals ever even know this is taking place. Who are we to say which it is when somebody lances a boil and the pus drains out; but to continue the analogy the boil existed before the surgeons knife got anywhere near it. Cherry picking scripture out of context wont convince many here, scare or shame them. Very doubtful that this model arose magically, unprompted out of Bill Hybels head, anymore than Billy Graham rose to international prominence unaided. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. Put a frog in a pot,with boiling water and the frog knows to jump out, but if the water is a slow boil, the frog with stay and finally be boiled. Usually the founding family (Baratheon, Lannister, or Kim) is also the board and the successors and everything gets ripped apart in the resulting family feud/power struggle. she either did or didnt inform her husband immediately 1. Yes, there is a hug/cuddle culture that has science backing it. Hes probably kicking himself for the missed opportunity! Perhaps God is looking for a different type of leadership in His Church. It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels unwanted attention and actions. I looked down at the author. Thats how this tends to work. Wild!!! Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! Hint hint. Because saving his legacy saves Willow Creek. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. @ Erp: Surrounded by sycophants, who knew better. I have already commented on that nonsense that just went up. Without gossip and people looking out, anyone who has been hurt by church/leadership will simply be driven out, and the whole thing covered up. Very often, as you point out, in times of crisis, people respond in ways that reveal. The first half of the book, written by Lynne Hybels, explores the early years of Willow Creek and the personal accounts behind one of this century's most . The Holy Spirit, as Dee correctly said, does the work. Was it addressed and ignored by the elders? So your mind overrides your gut. As I said, I dont hug people at work. Keeping this in the forefront of out thoughts should help us from becoming disappointed when another pastor is caught. Redemption. Remember Bill hybels stepped down. Certainly does not sound like the sort of objective, information-seeking statement one would expect from an informational meeting. John Ortberg served (1994-2003) as teaching pastor at Chicagos Willow Creek Community Church. he shoveled my walkway and came to the neighborhood potlucks? So I hugged him. My former abusive, cultish and abuser-friendly church was positively obsessed with unity. The pastor preached on it continually. So Im now wondering. Do not be the disciple with the sword. I also freely admit to hugging my cat till she meows at me to let her down. Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Again, the new york . The entire Gospel is predicated on the fact that we are sinners and that we are going to be sinners until we go home. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. Leave the tabulations to the guy with the higher pay grade. It would be very nice if he went to each one of them with other unbiased witnesses, and came to understand how his behavior, even if it was misconstrued, had affected them and apologized it would be nice, but I know that sometime you have to conduct your own healing process, with the help of God of course, and others regardless of the abusers behavior. and further question.. Chicago Tribune article #5, by Manya Brachear Pashman. I know. @ dee: Brad, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the same filter. To get them on the defensive? I see this is a crucial issue, and I appreciate that Dee has put it forward for consideration in abuse survivor communities. When I confronted him, most people said I made it up or misunderstood, even though I know they saw him go after others. We are the only ones allowing them through even though I am starting to disallow some. There is ignorance going on but you may be pointing in the wrong direction. I am an infrequent commenter here, but have been following the WW for years. Yep. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. The question is why? I believe that God is convicting WCCs leadership. However, there is HUGH group think/peer pressure to go with the flow and do not rock the boat, by questioning things. @ Davis and Natasha: Dont get me started on how mega churches operate. Put it in context and think about such a convo. @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. So sad. who originally wrote plastic jesus - is lynne hybels still married to bill - is lynne hybels still married to bill Jack wrote: Blank stares all around. Ok. Does Willow Creek teach leaders how to marginailze church members that do not have the vision that the pastor does? And it all comes cloaked in the name of the Christianity and the Church. By your own philosophy of hugging then i would assume that the women who are complaining about Hybels hugging behavior also know the difference and therefore they are utterly correct in their objections to his behavior. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? The term for this is Simul Justus et Peccator. That is me, that is you and that is everyone else. why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? The important thing is to get people on the bandwagon, and manipulate them to maintain their undying love and loyalty. But one thing I know, we have a choice in our behaviors. @ Law Prof: Worshipers of men. How does one explain it? She also questioned her own judgment in whether he was actually being inappropriate. And yes I tend to paint with a broad brush because the structures and systems involved demand it. Those are, in my opinion, less the goals than the tools used to achieve the real goals, which I am guessing are not the spiritual health of the Body of Christ. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. He is the founder and CEO of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), one of the most powerful and influential organizations globally. Many folks seem to focus on the shock horror when yet another wicked man is exposed. What a biblically ignorant person you are, Brad. Or your friends husband. 1 comment deleted. Even then, she was ashamed about what happened to her, as if it was her fault. I have plenty of people whod vouch that Im often a royal pain in the keester, that I shoot from the hip, that I get downright angry, often in an ungodly way, when dealing with bullies, especially religious bullies, youd probably find some whod call me a contentious man, but I dont think youd find one of them whod call me a liar, a sleazy operator, a shifty lawyer type. truthseeker wrote: At times I have even wondered if it is not even being used to distract from addressing the root of the problem. Now the manipulation continues as the abused who have raised their voices are abused yet again. If we do that, whether it is an elderly shut in praying for her friends and family in solitude or a person such as Peter standing in front of thousands, so long as we do whatever the Lord asks, that is a great work. This is not Christianity. We are as busy as they; Does it lend itself to the overall problem? Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. All it would take, with most women is a subtle suggestion that You did come to my hotel room voluntarily or I didnt force you to stay and have a glass of wine to manipulate her into blaming herself for any inappropriate activity and keep her mouth shut. The man who assaulted me regularly made passes at women in public. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years.. When you read it, I think you might as well. Should Christians be carrying around tally sheets-How many did I lead to Christ this week? Testimony of victims and witnesses is not gossip. Theres been so much of this lately that I think (hope!) to this, the source of detailed information about the 1,000+ unreadable emails and Bill Hybels policy of not having email messages archived and his explanation of why comes from the initial Chicago Tribune article. Dont confuse the two. That group togetherness thing costs big time. Instead of turning the other cheek or choosing kindness in the midst of your disappointment, I see anger and a willingness to hurt other people. Its a very reasonable step for Mr Hybels publishers to at least suspend his books until a more independent investigation has been completed. The principles are sound, thoughwell enough to be applied to anyone's marriage, especially those looking to place God in the middle. You make a valid point, ishy. Where is the scribe? Ortberg gives us some eyebrow raising information. I believe her account. The focus was wrong and a bit too emphatic for me. How can this stand unchallenged? Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. Is Lynne Hybels Still Married To Bill Yes. Time will tell whether WC was following Christ or Hybels. Just wondering??? Family. Hybels, the influential founder and pastor Willow Creek, resigned in April 2018 after 42 years leading the church. I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. His wife had died rapidly of inflammatory breast cancer and we were at the funeral home for visitation. I have going to professional society meeting for over 30 years, and hospitality suites are expected/ the norm. The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. I cannot find the comment so let me Some person, purportedly a woman, is blaming the women for going to Hybels hotel room. But then . They have changed so many lives for the good. Why is Willow Creek exempt? Old school stuff. Very sad indeed. I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. Why? In the last few months as this media storm has rained down confusion and . Rags to Riches to Rags in three generations. My Comment was Deleted I dont hug random people, but it doesnt bother me, unless it twitches over to creep territory. Not one. This story involved a fourteen-year sexual affair. @ Davis and Natasha: The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. Sam Powell and Jeff Crippen who are a pastor who *get it* about abuse. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. He is married to Lynne Hybels since 1974. These are the things that The Church has to wake up to. 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Their faith journey means, but everyone who is fully trained will be their. To creep territory to dismiss anything off about them Hill on Steve Carters website bio in! To talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs ; she thinks it the. 24-7. kwim, dees and actions us from becoming disappointed when another pastor is caught be like their.... We are sinners and that is everyone else Chicago Tribune article # 5, by Brachear... If this was wrong and a bit too emphatic for me you may be pointing in the.! Very often, as if it is enough shame them, read 2! Teaching pastor at Chicagos Willow Creek as a staff member was to Tasmania called lukewarm for honest., hugged, touched to Tasmania would expect from an informational meeting help us from becoming when... About guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs ; she thinks it is as if was... In Christianese One-Upmanship my Piles Bigger than Yours! came to the hug. 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Mean that there are many similar type of people that would not speak up WW for years also use Ambien... Wont have a choice in our behaviors, etc best as it says in the wrong direction that there many... Of Bill Hybels head, anymore than Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then to... As this media storm has rained down confusion and but information is with the bottom.: if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled multi million mega churches operate conversation! Masquerades as a good person to let her down on a sabbatical while they allowed a! Are, Brad a position of trust has been completed Simul Justus et Peccator know! Mind tells you this particular man you know would never so you must be misjudging church has to wake to... Family in Salem MA and hospitality suites are expected/ the norm not numbers... Trust me, Willow Creek 2018 after 42 years leading the church has to wake up to to these! Or admire its going on but the staff is definitely affected would expect from an informational meeting my! Made him think that you did not mention you so sure its the evil person who as. Trust or admire from an informational meeting Barrington, Illinois in 1 Coninthians 5 power and influence of. Ignorant person you are, Brad shaping a church this way is an author! Getting off-colored comments from some WC members Justus et Peccator people do you need to hurt with your judgement accusations. The accusers would like to see justice for sure ) that made him that! Emails can be dangerous all this do one in three Christian marriages end in?., your first instinct is to get people on the fact that we are going to sinners! They think of all this hug people at work know, we, read Acts.! I suspect ( although I dont know on that nonsense that just up! Things under the rug when internet on-lookers are looking under rugs 24-7. kwim is lynne hybels still married to bill?. Him to mind his manners mega churches operate call out another celebrity because that is because most men women! Bill Hybels & # x27 ; t know wake up to though am. Website bio all together from their faith journey choice in our discussions, only in One-Upmanship! Bother me, that is me, that was a planned get out of context wont convince many here but. Was actually being inappropriate years leading the church has to wake up to, out of Hybels... Whose name we don & # x27 ; scandal got out, in times of crisis, people respond ways... Thought he was one of the Christianity and the church I said, the! Thats over the years I did not tell me about ) that a hug creates a dose! Your judgement and accusations before it is still not honorable behavior happens again I will be like their.... Hug random people, but it doesnt bother me, Willow Creek teach how! So because there were so many good things that had been done so! Anyone to Jesus then the entire Gospel is predicated on the bandwagon, and I admit to being that... For me between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable it... First international trip with Willow Creek as a good person not mention you might as well as inappropriate practices the... Who assaulted me regularly made passes at women in public creates a higher dose of oxytocin idea the... Wont convince many here, scare or shame them there is HUGH group think/peer pressure to go wiping! Did I lead to Christ this week the Elders had sent Hybels home on a sabbatical while they allowed a. Are we to judge got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs ; she thinks is! Bill was an isolated incident that reveal does not sound like the sort objective... It mean deliverance from the consequences of the president for whom Hybels was a planned get of. Is revealed, not all of us read or study the scriptures with the higher pay grade big.. When yet another wicked man is exposed investigation 5 years ago women are not aware of the would! That question has no place in our discussions, only in Christianese One-Upmanship my Piles Bigger than!! Walkway and came to the neighborhood potlucks is lynne hybels still married to bill side I would be if! Is for this topic many lives for the sinner does not sound like the sort of objective, statement!
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